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Writer's pictureTravis Leech

PoPCast Episode 08 Transcript

[00:00:00] Travis: Okay. PoPCast audience. It is so good to have you with us again for this episode. Today we are going to be dipping into another amazing project of ours that we've been working on for a little bit of time.

[00:00:19] Whitney: A little bit of time; a few years now, for sure. I'm super excited about it though. 

[00:00:25] Travis: Yes, it is finally out third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth grade.

[00:00:32] Whitney: Grade level specific. Each grade level has their own. Patterns of Revision resource book. 

[00:00:39] Travis: Yeah, so today we are going to dig a little bit deeper into Patterns of Revision. We are going to talk about this resource, give you an overview of it, some comparative analysis, how is this alike and different from Patterns of Power, and talk to you a little bit about the structure of it today.

Why don't you start; talk to us about Patterns of Revision, Whitney. 

[00:01:06] Whitney: Okay. Well, I think I'm going to go back to a little origin story first, but we have Patterns of Power out, and the teachers we work with seem to love it, and it really addresses grammar instruction. Then through our work as we chat with teachers who are using it , we find that there's also this need for revision and, Patterns of Power really focuses more on the editing side. So how can we support our teachers on the revision side as well?

Still supplementary. It's not going to be your entire writing instruction, but it's a resource that's really going to boost the revision side, and elevate the understanding of revision with our students as they still make choices about meaning and effect. So that's kind of where Patterns of Revision came from.

Of course, the brilliant mind of Jeff Anderson is embedded into all of this work that we do. In fact, he was the one that called us and said, Hey, we need to do something on revision now, let's get to work on this. And I have to say Patterns of Revision was definitely a work of revision.

It was revised so many times as we were testing out different lesson processes and templates to really make it effective and practical. I think that's extremely important: practical in the classroom setting. So it was years in the making, but we are thrilled to have it out there. I think it's pretty magical. I always say revision is magical. And I think this one is. Pretty magical piece of teacher tools. 

[00:02:42] Travis: Let's just dig into what it is, and maybe we can uncover some of the similarities and differences. with Patterns of Power a little bit more as we go. 

[00:02:52] Whitney: Yeah. Awesome. Patterns of Revision is a set of lessons geared towards revising. So if we think about how Patterns of Power and Patterns of Revision are, alike. First of all, they both use published children's literature as models. Um, they both engage students in conversations about meaning and effect.

And they both have a process that we follow, but the process is different in Patterns of Revision than it is in Patterns of Power. So when I think about Patterns of Revision, Patterns of Revision can stand alone, like we can use just that without using Patterns of Power, but it can also compliment the work that we do with Patterns of Power as well.

In Patterns of Power, we focus on like 10 minutes a day, right? Daily instruction focuses on grammar and choices that we make with grammar and conventions for meaning and effect, whereas Patterns of Revision is not something we would do every day. We're going to use a lesson from Patterns of Revision when it's time to revise.

When we have a piece of writing in front of us that we want to make changes to, um, in order to revise it. So I think that is probably one of the biggest, um, Differences is that revision is not something we would do every single day. Uh, we're going to pick and choose the times within our units or modules or however, our curriculum is set up.

We'll pick and choose times to insert. Uh, Patterns of Revision lesson and that lesson would be your writing lesson for that day. Uh, or I know that you could break it up, you know, into a couple of days if needed, but I think like anywhere from at elementary 30 to 45 minutes and secondary, possibly 45 to 60 minutes.

Uh, just kind of depending on the application piece of when they go back to their own writing, how much time would they need for that? Uh, so it's, it's really going to be the instruction for that day rather than every day instruction. 

[00:05:04] Travis: That's an important point. So while you can do informal revision more than this amount, this is what we're suggesting that this kind of formal process, this predictable process, a routine that we're going to set up around revision to do that a little bit more sporadically than a daily practice. So I appreciate that clarity around that.

[00:05:26] Whitney: For sure. And each revision lesson is focused on one strategy for revising. So we're going to build our toolbox of strategies into ultimately sentence combining, and being able to take all the strategies and work them together to combine sentences. So it is systematic, it is something that builds in complexity as we go through the year and across and up into the next grade level. 

[00:05:57] Travis: So let's talk about each of the pieces of this revision puzzle that we put together. So we're basing this work around the focal point of DRAFT. And what does draft mean?

Well, DRAFT, each of the letters in DRAFT represent a really important option that writers have available to them as they are revisiting, looking again at a piece of writing. So, I'm going to do just a brief highlight of each of them for us and then, you know, if you ever, if you want to jump in, just jump in.

No, you're great. So, we're going to start. And we're gonna actually let's start at the back end with the T talk. Yeah. D R A F T represents talk and that is really important because that is something that is woven into every lesson In the Patterns of Revision resource. So talk is so important. Um, just to give a shout out to, uh, Elizabeth City , she has an article in ASCD from a few years ago called "Talking to Learn" and Whitney, you have found this and put it in front of my eyes and it's just really brilliant and I think highlights a belief system that we hold here and what we're looking at, why, why that talk is so important. She says in her article, I'm just going to pull a little bit from it: "Although it's possible to think without talking. and to talk without much thinking, each can strengthen the other. I want schools to be places of rich learning, and therefore I want them to be places of rich talk."

[00:07:52] Whitney: As we think about talk, we know when our students are able to talk it out and think aloud and think through their processes, they're deepening their understanding of what they can do.

And so many times I hear from teachers that teaching writing is hard. I don't know how to teach them. Um, by giving them these opportunities to talk and to think through, they are gaining a better understanding of, okay, what can I do? What choices do I have? And this understanding that My choice may not be the same as the author that I'm learning from and their choice too.

And I think that's important to recognize that writers have choices, and we're always thinking about meaning and effect, but there's no one way to do things. And in order to have that understanding, we have to have conversations about that. 

[00:08:42] Travis: Yes. And I think that's another if we wanted to tie back into this is a similar belief system to Patterns of Power.

We as writers make choices. Those choices make meaning that they have an effect on us as readers. Same way. Same focal point here that we're really elevating some choices that can be made that can be effective in different ways. So brilliant call there. So talk is a thread that flows through this entire process.

 I'm going to take us back to the top of DRAFT and highlight the letter D. That letter represents one option that writers can make when they go back and revisit a piece of writing. They can choose to delete. So delete, what could they delete? They might delete repetitive words, phrases, sentences, or they may delete Unnecessary information 

[00:09:45] Whitney: In the elementary level, sometimes we have some random thoughts put into our writing. 

[00:09:51] Travis: Oh, just the elementary level. Okay, 

[00:09:55] Whitney: I have to say, students don't like to delete. They think that everything in there belongs and that it doesn't need to come out. And so through these conversations that we have, we're able to really discover, Oh, that's not really necessary. We can go ahead and delete that. So sorry. 

[00:10:11] Travis: Yeah, no. And that's, that's smart. That's a great call. And I think, so we start in each grade level resource with a chapter on deleting repetitive or unnecessary information and how. How we are approaching it is we start at a more, we say, macro level, larger level, so at the paragraph level.

If we're looking at a paragraph or two of text, we are going to facilitate conversations using authentic published literature where students have that conversation around what information in here might be repetitive or might be unnecessary. Then we talk about choices of taking some of that content out.

So that is deleting that then later on. In the resource, we have our own standalone section on come by on sentence combining where we look more at the sentence level and that then becomes an option that students can choose to delete words to get rid of repetition or unnecessary information in order to combine sentences.

 So that is deleting. That's the first D. Then we have R. D is for delete. R is for rearranging. So we take a look in this next chapter at rearranging for logical progression. This is a great way for students to see each sentence as a separate idea that can connect together from one to the next.

What I love about this chapter and the work that we do in it is it helps students to see very clearly sentence to sentence progression, how sentences connect, how one idea sometimes is really important for that idea to be before another idea. Not always, but sometimes. And we get to have those rich conversations.

Through talk that we build into each lesson around how we might take ideas as they exist and arrange them for an effective logical progression. 

[00:12:31] Whitney: So these conversations are really about the author's purpose and craft, right? Why would we order our ideas in this way? And then how can we do it? in an effective manner.

Uh, so I, I just, as you were talking about that, I was like, Oh, purpose and craft, all of these come back to real authentic and organic conversations about authors, purpose, and craft. 

[00:12:56] Travis: Whitney, you want to talk about the A? We have D is delete, R is rearrange. 

[00:13:01] Whitney: I feel like I need my pom poms. R, rearrange. A is for add. So we're going to add connectors such as punctuation, words, sentences, and often these sentences are to clarify and connect ideas to one another. And, and this is where transitions would come in also as we transition from one idea to the next , and again, we look at the paragraph level for our chapter on ADD and our lessons within that chapter. But then we take that to the sentence level when we're combining sentences and we're combining, we're using delete, rearrange, add. We're using all of those simultaneously as we work to combine our ideas in that final chapter.

[00:13:49] Travis: F is for form new verbs. And we do that to compress repetition, to connect ideas, to improve clarity. So we're already kind of extending on some of the content and thinking that we've done in prior chapters by the time we get to forming new verbs and in the middle school resources for grade six, seven, and eight, this is a standalone chapter, whereas in the elementary resources, we have this folded into the work that we're going to do in the combining chapter. So when we're combining sentences, this idea of forming new verbs becomes elevated. If you're thinking about what is, yeah, what does that really mean? The forming of new verbs. 

So we take a look at infinitives, so changing the verb form to have the "to" in front of it, and then that kind of basic dictionary, the, the, the form of the verb that you see in the dictionary. We take a look at participles, and very specifically here taking a look at that -ing ending. We know that participles can be more than just the -ing ending, but that's a focal point as a starting point for students.

And then we take a look at passive and active voice and how the forming of new verbs can change passive voice into active voice, how we might switch around and refocus that content. So another really important choice that all writers have as they think about making their writing a little bit more effective.

[00:15:26] Whitney: Just at the elementary level, we really, with that form new verbs, we really are just doing some exploratory work with that. And then there's that direct teaching of it in middle school when it's a little bit more developmentally appropriate. 

However, we definitely explore it, uh, and still try out and recognize that we still have those choices and learn from writers who are writing in that way, because they will be reading books that also use these structures in the writing that they're reading.

And so it will also help them understand and read sentences within those structures better too. 

[00:16:05] Travis: Our last big section of this resource is combining, sentence combining, and that really incorporates at the sentence level revision work that highlights deleting; rearranging; adding of connector words, phrases, punctuation; and forming new verbs. It allows for students to extend their thinking around choices that they have, because we're going to set up opportunities for students to really stretch their thinking around how they might take ideas and combine them to make them more effective.

[00:16:41] Whitney: And talking it out the entire time. That's where that T comes back into DRAFT. 

I want to kind of point out some of the visuals that we have in Patterns of Revision, especially for our students. So we use a cell phone image that has icons on it and each icon represents a piece of DRAFT.

And so by the end of our teaching, but as we work up and we build this mnemonic of DRAFT, they start to see these icons come together as choices on their cell phones. And then in the end they can use those all together. So I just think that that visual image helps them to kind of put everything together as well.

So I'm super about, about cell phone and future episodes of this podcast will be individually as we talk about each strategy and what a lesson in that would look like. 

[00:17:36] Travis: So that is an overview of each of the main chapters in the patterns of revision series. We have the draft mnemonic delete. Rearrange ad form and throughout all of these talking it out. Join us in our next episode, as we get a little bit deeper into the weeds of. What does a lesson look like? What's the structure of a Patterns of Revision lesson? 

And we're going to explain the predictable routine that offers flexibility for you as a teacher, as well as for your students to find success in building their revision repertoire. So we'll talk to you later.


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